Monday, September 15, 2008
Shaky Hands?
A long time reader left a comment over the weekend expressing concerns about current events and what they mean. He is either starting to think or already does think that this bear market will be worse than normal. He cites many reasons to worry, says he is less confident about things and wonders how I can "cling to my faith" that this is a normal bear.
I responded with some numbers but wanted to reply in writing too with some of my thinking about the current situation and also my thought process in general.
One way to break this down is into two categories; facts and the things that people are afraid will become facts. As of Friday's close the S&P 500 was down 20%. It was a little lower earlier this summer and it seems like it will open a little lower today. Obviously no one knows where it will bottom out. Plenty of people have an opinion (including me; 1095) of course but that's all anyone has; opinion.
All the news of the last 18 months, SPX 1251 (as of Friday). That is a fact. The market might get much worse or it might not but what it might do is not fact. Even the news from the weekend, 1095 is still kind of a long way from here, not very far, but kind of. If the bottom were 33% (still close to normal) from the peak that would be 1049, that is a noticeable drop from here.
Before I go any further, let me say for anyone new I have been thinking we would have a normal bear market since before summer 2007, I said that I thought a bear had started on December 13, 2007 and have been consistent in thinking a normal bear would be about 30% down from the peak. As I began to write about my thoughts in this regard a commenter heckled me daily about my thoughts that a bear was coming--I was too bearish and now although I still have the same opinion some think, albeit much more respectfully and intelligently than the heckler, that I am too bullish.
Bear markets have certain sentiment based things in common, little truisms that repeat over and over. They repeat with such consistency that they are almost facts.
During every one of these big bad events that I have been through, I have been in the business since 1984, there is incredible fear about how bad this time is and the reasons why this time is different are always well reasoned and plausible. I have tried to make this point before and invariably a comment gets left telling me why this time really is different.
The fear is always bigger than the reality. One thing I am very good at is remembering how afraid people have been during other events. I can tell you the fear now is the same as it is every time. I also realize this point will fall totally deaf for some people.
Let me be clear about something which is that the context here is about what the stock market is doing. Whatever the deficit is doing, whatever the foreclosure numbers are, whatever houses are dropping, my job is to navigate the capital markets and in this post that is the only context.
For many months before the bear market started I described how bear markets start which is that the roll over slowly for several months (look at the chart in the post I linked to above), that an inverted yield curve (when they occur) is a reliable catalyst, that most talking heads tell us not worry, the bull is alive and all of this was the case for this bear. It has been so textbook that there is a humorous element to it.
Another part of normal is enormous failures; I'd say Fannie and Freddie fit the bill here.
There is a historical element that is also sentiment-based that leads me to conclude normal bear market which is the frequency with which the US market cuts in half. Typically there are decades in between 50% declines. This has been fact. The reason for this, IMO, is that once you go through a 50% decline you are so fearful of it happening that you sell before it happens. A 50% decline, again IMO, requires a new generation of investors who do not know this fear.
So in terms of the normal fear that now exists, the text book nature of the bear thus far, the big failures thus far and how recently the S&P 500 cut in half I conclude this will be looked at as having been a normal bear market. This is my opinion and so of course it could be wrong. Nothing has changed my mind but still none of the things I cited have to matter and again I could be wrong.
As many times as I have talked about my expectations for the bear I have also talked about having a larger cash position than normal, having some double short and remaining underweight financials throughout all of this with the goal of missing a chunk, not all but a chunk, of down a lot. You can look at the quarter end videos for the last couple of years to see how that has worked out.
This all as opposed to having no defensive plan ahead of time, left having to try to decide what should be done now after a 20% drop. So if I am wrong I feel as though the consequence of being wrong about the bottom is not that great, I am already defensively positioned and would get progressively more so if no other action is taken (the idea being SDS would hedge more portfolio as it went up in price).
As for general thought process the stock market goes up most of the time and occasionally it goes down in bear markets. The cycles repeat over and over with different details but similar results. This is an inevitability. Fortunately bear markets offer some warning ahead of time and heeding those warnings can add to the return over the entire stock market cycle which is a better measurement of time for people trying to accumulate enough money for retirement.
If bear markets are inevitable then as I see it there is very little to worry about, you know ahead of time they will come, you know this.
In terms of the US being somehow broken ok, but other countries are not broken. They may take longer than normal to come back but I believe many other countries are dealing with cyclical issues. If this turns out to be a secular issue for the US, ok, but the cycles in other countries will start to turn up. We need to have exposure to those countries whenever that happens.
Is this is shocking or new to anyone? Of course not.
Let me again reiterate that the context of this is the capital markets and protecting client assets as best as I can, not being right about how low the market goes or how bad anything else gets. I think that being correct directionally, which I have been and have shared on this site every step of the way, does a lot of the portfolio work. I will also reiterate that I could easily be wrong about where the bottom of this bear is.
I responded with some numbers but wanted to reply in writing too with some of my thinking about the current situation and also my thought process in general.
One way to break this down is into two categories; facts and the things that people are afraid will become facts. As of Friday's close the S&P 500 was down 20%. It was a little lower earlier this summer and it seems like it will open a little lower today. Obviously no one knows where it will bottom out. Plenty of people have an opinion (including me; 1095) of course but that's all anyone has; opinion.
All the news of the last 18 months, SPX 1251 (as of Friday). That is a fact. The market might get much worse or it might not but what it might do is not fact. Even the news from the weekend, 1095 is still kind of a long way from here, not very far, but kind of. If the bottom were 33% (still close to normal) from the peak that would be 1049, that is a noticeable drop from here.
Before I go any further, let me say for anyone new I have been thinking we would have a normal bear market since before summer 2007, I said that I thought a bear had started on December 13, 2007 and have been consistent in thinking a normal bear would be about 30% down from the peak. As I began to write about my thoughts in this regard a commenter heckled me daily about my thoughts that a bear was coming--I was too bearish and now although I still have the same opinion some think, albeit much more respectfully and intelligently than the heckler, that I am too bullish.
Bear markets have certain sentiment based things in common, little truisms that repeat over and over. They repeat with such consistency that they are almost facts.
During every one of these big bad events that I have been through, I have been in the business since 1984, there is incredible fear about how bad this time is and the reasons why this time is different are always well reasoned and plausible. I have tried to make this point before and invariably a comment gets left telling me why this time really is different.
The fear is always bigger than the reality. One thing I am very good at is remembering how afraid people have been during other events. I can tell you the fear now is the same as it is every time. I also realize this point will fall totally deaf for some people.
Let me be clear about something which is that the context here is about what the stock market is doing. Whatever the deficit is doing, whatever the foreclosure numbers are, whatever houses are dropping, my job is to navigate the capital markets and in this post that is the only context.
For many months before the bear market started I described how bear markets start which is that the roll over slowly for several months (look at the chart in the post I linked to above), that an inverted yield curve (when they occur) is a reliable catalyst, that most talking heads tell us not worry, the bull is alive and all of this was the case for this bear. It has been so textbook that there is a humorous element to it.
Another part of normal is enormous failures; I'd say Fannie and Freddie fit the bill here.
There is a historical element that is also sentiment-based that leads me to conclude normal bear market which is the frequency with which the US market cuts in half. Typically there are decades in between 50% declines. This has been fact. The reason for this, IMO, is that once you go through a 50% decline you are so fearful of it happening that you sell before it happens. A 50% decline, again IMO, requires a new generation of investors who do not know this fear.
So in terms of the normal fear that now exists, the text book nature of the bear thus far, the big failures thus far and how recently the S&P 500 cut in half I conclude this will be looked at as having been a normal bear market. This is my opinion and so of course it could be wrong. Nothing has changed my mind but still none of the things I cited have to matter and again I could be wrong.
As many times as I have talked about my expectations for the bear I have also talked about having a larger cash position than normal, having some double short and remaining underweight financials throughout all of this with the goal of missing a chunk, not all but a chunk, of down a lot. You can look at the quarter end videos for the last couple of years to see how that has worked out.
This all as opposed to having no defensive plan ahead of time, left having to try to decide what should be done now after a 20% drop. So if I am wrong I feel as though the consequence of being wrong about the bottom is not that great, I am already defensively positioned and would get progressively more so if no other action is taken (the idea being SDS would hedge more portfolio as it went up in price).
As for general thought process the stock market goes up most of the time and occasionally it goes down in bear markets. The cycles repeat over and over with different details but similar results. This is an inevitability. Fortunately bear markets offer some warning ahead of time and heeding those warnings can add to the return over the entire stock market cycle which is a better measurement of time for people trying to accumulate enough money for retirement.
If bear markets are inevitable then as I see it there is very little to worry about, you know ahead of time they will come, you know this.
In terms of the US being somehow broken ok, but other countries are not broken. They may take longer than normal to come back but I believe many other countries are dealing with cyclical issues. If this turns out to be a secular issue for the US, ok, but the cycles in other countries will start to turn up. We need to have exposure to those countries whenever that happens.
Is this is shocking or new to anyone? Of course not.
Let me again reiterate that the context of this is the capital markets and protecting client assets as best as I can, not being right about how low the market goes or how bad anything else gets. I think that being correct directionally, which I have been and have shared on this site every step of the way, does a lot of the portfolio work. I will also reiterate that I could easily be wrong about where the bottom of this bear is.
Labels:
cycles,
market,
psychology,
risk management
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13 comments:
I still think you are wrong and we will fall further and longer than you think. That said I am impressed with how you are handling this and think you are closer than many pundits out there. Your choice to not reinvesting until the S&P goes above its 200 dma will also help you from loosing money even though your opinion is this will be a 'normal" bear.
On the flip side I agree with you the sky will not fall and we will get through this barring a "fix" from congress, although I wish they would bring back Glass-Steagall.
We are turning Japanese and I still like my treasury money market funds.
seg
I tend to agree with you that this will be a "normal" bear market. However, I'm not sure I understand or agree with you in defining "normal" in terms of 30x% down in price and xx months in duration. Wouldn't a normal bear market be more likely defined to last until the p/e's reach single digits or dividend rates get over x%, etc, etc? Do you have any good sources of data or opinions on how low these "fundamental" data levels might reach in a "normal" bear market?
thanks seg, i hope you are, gulp, wrong about japan.
anon, IMO pe and the like are lousy predictors. stocks can stay cheap or expensive for a long time. WMT had a very high PE for years and did nothing but go up.
addtionally, as i understand it the track record for those things is quite spotty.
Thank you very much for this information.
sohbet
i am no expert on japan and why they languished for 15 to 20 years, but during the 90s and earlier this decade i heard repeatedly that the japanese did not "cleanse" their banking system. according to the observers, due to actions by the boj essentially insolvent banks continued to live and undermine the whole system. if (and that is a big if) that assertion was true and the boj's lack of action undermined the system, then we should probably look at today's lack of fed action to prop up lehman as a sign that they will allow the normal "cleansing" process to occur. longer term--three months to two years from now--this probably will result in much more benefit than harm to the economy and the stock market. this seems to be a distinct divergence from japan.
--gjg49
yeah, in reality the structural differences between japan then and the us now are stark.
we cannot become japan structurally so the real question being asked by people making the comparison is whether the net effect will be the same. the probability of 18 years of deflation seems low to me so i think the chance of the US being like Japan is quite low but today is not the time to categorically rule out anything.
- - THE BEST NEWS E V E R ! ! - -
Chiefs lose "Golden Parachutes"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26715738/
The government rarely does anything right but here they scored a homerun. Executives have too long received outrageous rewards for marginal performance. Hopefully this will send a message to BODs that rubber stamp packages that hose shareholders and employees.
When I say we are turning Japanese I mean Japan lite so to speak - 3 to 7 years of deflation.
Bear sterns was not a cleansing, fannie and freddie were not a cleansing. IMO the government let Lehman go under because they were tired of having the economy held hostage by banks like lehman. the government does not want to pay the ransom any more and they said that loud and clear by letting lehman go under. It worked to an extent to as merill saw the light and made a deal.
goldman and morgan stanley will also make deals
wamu and aig have big issues. this is far from over and we will have zombie banks for years because the government can not let them all end up like lehman. SThis was just hard ball negotiating by paulson putting the fear of god in other financial CEO's IMO
seg
Roger - a sea captian can't tell you what the sea will do, but can prepare for a storm when he recognizes the signs. Maybe the storm will last a long time, maybe not, but with guidence he will hopefully not lose the cargo. Thanks for the posts. I agree that we are in a normal situation...it just never feels good to see the negative sign in front of any account relative to any index.
Totally random (ha ha) question: If Lehman goes away will all their indexes be renamed?
"The fear is always bigger than the reality. One thing I am very good at is remembering how afraid people have been during other events [how about the great depression?]. I can tell you the fear now is the same as it is every time [how old were you in 1932?]. I also realize this point will fall totally deaf for some people." Is the US financial position similar to that of the 1980's SnL failing years or 1929 "bread line years"? May I suggest reading some Taleb?
the licensing revenue does have some value.
John Galt, I think things have changed a little since 1932.
I do not think fear is the issue and if it were I do not think there is enough fear out there yet.
The problem is solvency. This is not simply a liquidity issue a lot of the debts will never be paid back.
so Bear, Frannie, Freddie, Lehman, country wide, wamu and many others are all going away. This is not the kind of thing that gets resolved over night.
We have been building excess house hold debt for over 20 years. It will take years to work off these bad loans.
It is not just the USA. The UK, Spain, Ireland, and several other places will suffer. This will depress the rest of the world for an extended period.
But there will be some nice trading opportunities coming.
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